'Developing a coherent, structured and critical argument within your thesis'

 

#phdchat tweet log - 2nd November 2011

 

@NSRiazat - Welcome to #phdchat - the topic tonight is 'developing a coherent, structured and critical argument within your thesis'. #phd

@srossmktg - @ai1sa Here's an example of marketing experiments (along my interests). This was an essay from auth1's thesis. http://t.co/gsuaOXby #phdchat

@ekvraga - #phdchat LOL! Us US folk confused by clock changes - example of argument against daylight savings-time: http://t.co/iuYIMMAD

@lizith - @NSRiazat looking forward to the discussion this evening - and hopefully for some good ideas! #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @NSRiazat you may not feel you have that until the end do not despair #phdchat

@srossmktg - @ai1sa ftp://ftp.cba.uri.edu/Classes/oliver/Jay's%20Dissertation/Willful%20Ignorance.pdf #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - So are we talking about the 'golden thread'? #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @sarahthesheepu @NSRiazat me too #phdchat

@NSRiazat - Guess one thing writing critically is not is a list of reading without any engagement with the concepts/themes #phdchat #phd

@SueFolley - hello all at #phdchat - I am listening with interest to today's topic :)

@JaneDavis13 - @LBA_OX12 sounds right to me #phdchat

@srossmktg - Tomorrow's G+ #phdchat Hangout will be at 20:00 UTC. Check your time here. http://t.co/Lx2kYrUv Add me: http://t.co/OeTqPIQN #phdchat

@lizith - @LBA_OX12 can you say more - what is the 'golden thread' - new expression to me #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @JaneDavis13 @NSRiazat actually i didnt think i had after i submitted supervisor & examiners had diff opinion sometimes hard 2 c #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @sarahthesheepu - I had a planned argument....and then it wandered off... :) #phdchat

@ConsultaGecko - Got chairing grid 4 SERA conference http://t.co/YEneRqIS Looking forward to chair the sessions #lovehe #phdchat

@SueFolley - @EmmaBurnettx get well soon #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - @lizith I mean telling a consistent story/theme right through - an approach we were given 4 MSc dissertation #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @NSRiazat @sarahthesheepu it comes and goes ...looks right one weekend and not the next #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @NSRiazat but does the wandering add anything? i wandered, the wandered stuff was good #phdchat

@lizith - @sarahthesheepu what hints can you give those of us still on the journey? @janedavis13 @nsriazat #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @sarahthesheepu @JaneDavis13 - how do you rescue a 'lost" argument. Hard to keep focused when length of thesis is so great. #phdchat

@allonsdanser - @SueFolley Me too! I really need to write, write, write. #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @allonsdanser @SueFolley but it's the right write from a cohesive thread perspective #phdchat

@ekvraga - @NSRiazat @sarahthesheepu @JaneDavis13 Wandering fine while writing - be ready for some major cuts while editing! #phdchat

@SueFolley - @JaneDavis13 @allonsdanser yes and that is what I need - not sure how to do this though :( #phdchat

@lizgloyn - @LBA_OX12 Golden thread sounds like right approach to me - but it's only going to come out during the editing process #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @JaneDavis13 @sarahthesheepu - my argument in data analysis seems to be changing on a daily basis at the moment #phdchat

@Nicky_Garland - the research itself is the process of development, so u cant have the perfect thread to start with - editing lots is the key #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - Advice I've been given is to write a story, not a set of separate experiments #phdchat

@lizith - @JaneDavis13 @nsriazat @sarahthesheepu I know what central argument is, but I've tendency to discursive not critical writing #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @lizith @janedavis13 @nsriazat i feel a blog coming on ... to write first wander if u do & then when finished go back & edit #phdchat

@lizgloyn - @NSRiazat Isn't that part of the Fun (tm) though? Working through different ideas to find which works best? #phdchat

@srossmktg - @ClaretCarly If you can't get the story out, then the experiments don't tell anything. The key is communicating ideas, not results. #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @NSRiazat @JaneDavis13 are u writing as a whole or on chps i broke mine down to chps & what i wanted to illustrate in each chp #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @sarahthesheepu @lizith @nsriazat I find that noting editing is more constructive. Bit like an action research approach to writing #phdchat

@SueFolley - What if you have several threads rather than one main one? #phdchat - is that allowed? :)

@sarahthesheepu - @lizith @JaneDavis13 @nsriazat nothing wrong with discursive its finding balance tell us whats happening & then why #phdchat

@srossmktg - If this was the OLD #phdchat time, I'd be able to actually participate. But have to leave now... #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @sarahthesheepu @NSRiazat writing in chapters #phdchat

@lizgloyn - @SueFolley Totally - so long as you're clear which thread you're talking about when, and maintain clarity throughout #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @ekvraga @sarahthesheepu @JaneDavis13 - have to go back and take out sections...agree with major editing #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @srossmktg Exactly. Results used as evidence in the argument #phdchat

@SueFolley - @lizgloyn Great - as was worried I have a few things going through mine not just one key idea... :) thanks #phdchat

@NSRiazat - For me a definition of critical writing is explanations and reasons as opposed to description and summary. #phdchat #phdchat #thinkingaloud

@lizith - @SueFolley at mo I've split thesis draft into 3 sections each with a specific approach & focus - looking from diff angles #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @JaneDavis13 @NSRiazat i broke my argument down so ecah chapter illustrated a part of the argument & built on each other #phdchat

@ekvraga - @SueFolley @lizgloyn Addressing diverse threads important - if hard - part of writing. Love studies that unite disparate fields! #phdchat

@SueFolley - @NSRiazat I like that definition - it makes sense :)) #phdchat #phdchat #thinkingaloud

@JaneDavis13 - @sarahthesheepu @lizith @nsriazat @NSRiazat that makes me feel better - similar approach #phdchat

@lizith - @srossmktg but it is the OLD time - clocks went back last weekend :) #phdchat

@ai1sa - @lizith my method prefers descriptive i have a tendency toward critical that i have to reign in #phdchat

@AmandaMichelle - @srossmktg well, thanks to dubya, it's gonna be a coupla weeks before it's "old time" again. #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @ekvraga Mine feels like it's in two distinct parts, I think it will be challenging when I come to write up #phdchat

@SueFolley - @lizith sounds good! :) #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @JaneDavis13 @lizith @nsriazat @NSRiazat worked for me if any1 wants to see shout & ill email a pdf #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - How far do U have to follow 'conventional' thesis structure? What alternatives are allowed? #phdchat

@AmandaMichelle - so what IS the topic today? #phdchat

@lizith - @suefolley plan is to draw threads together in final discussion chapter #phdchat

@SueFolley - @ekvraga mine isn't necessarily different fields but just not one key idea -but several.... #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @LBA_OX12 u can have whatever structure you want as long as within word limit #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @sarahthesheepu @lizith @janedavis13 - liking idea of blog :) #phdchat

@SueFolley - @lizith that sounds like a really good structure... #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @sarahthesheepu @lizith @nsriazat @NSRiazat *shouting* #phdchat

@ai1sa - @LBA_OX12 might depend on discipline, methodology, comfort zone of supervisor, prospective markers, desire for tenure.... #phdchat

@ekvraga - @SueFolley Even so....maybe I'm biased but making connections makes studies fun! #phdchat

@lizith - @LBA_OX12 probably question for supervisor - different disciplines and institutions seem to have different rules #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @JaneDavis13 @lizith @nsriazat @NSRiazat dm me your email :D #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @lizgloyn - it is fun if had more time...it's a nightmare when you only have one day free to work on it (I work full time) #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @NSRiazat @lizith @janedavis13 ill do one at weekend #phdchat

@Janshs - @JaneDavis13 like that idea #PhDChat

@SueFolley - @ekvraga great :))) #phdchat

@ai1sa - @ClaretCarly mine felt like it was 2 parts for a very long time, its just merging again now in conclusions/implications #phdchat

@lizith - @SueFolley still waiting to hear what supervisor makes of it - but I'm ploughing on regardless :) #phdchat

@ekvraga - @ClaretCarly Hard for lots of ppl - me included! Found separate chapters with "bookends" drawing together helped. #phdchat

@DrNostromo - @LBA_OX12 Discuss with your supervisor and consider who your external will be but beware about being too radical #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @srossmktg - good point re: communicating ideas, not results. It's the ideas/concepts that help to develop practice/policy. #phdchat

@SueFolley - @lizith Good for you - I sent my first draft to supervisor yesterday - very nervous about feedback :( #phdchat

@Janshs - What would your respondents write as the argument if they could? #PhDChat

@ekvraga - So true! Too radical can be hard to sell... MT @DrNostromo Discuss with your supervisor...beware about being too radical #phdchat

@lizith - @JaneDavis13 did I miss a message? just wondering why *shouting* #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @sarahthesheepu @JaneDavis13 write in chapters but also view as a whole every few weeks #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @NSRiazat @JaneDavis13 i didnt view as whole until after submission pre viva! #phdchat

@JaneDavis13 - @lizith .@sarahthesheepu offered goodies if we gave her a shout ... #phdchat

@ai1sa - @NSRiazat & communicating that you understand a process of enquiry & the ethics inolved. Not just knowledgeable & knowledge making? #phdchat

@ekvraga - @NSRiazat @srossmktg: Yes, but results in theoretical context develop & move ideas forward - as well as support. #phdchat

@lizith - @JaneDavis13 I clearly need to check that out <g> @sarahthesheepu #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - @DrNostromo Thx for all yr comments & advice #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @ai1sa @ekvraga I'm sure I will make connections as I go, I like the idea of "bookends" and an overall concluding chapter #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @lizith @JaneDavis13 would u like a copy of thesis? #phdchat not very exciting sadly

@lizith - @sarahthesheepu I've got copy - you sent me one some time back - worth others having a look! @janedavis13 #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @ai1sa - good point about ethics. Important to consider. #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @lizith @janedavis13 i thought i had lol i am offering again for any1 who wants and doesnt have #phdchat especially as i thought id lost it

@debbiefuco - U.S. catches up nxt wk. RT @srossmktg: If this wasOLD #phdchat time, I'd be able to actually participate. But have to leave now... #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - @sarahthesheepu Yes pls #phdchat

@NSRiazat - Anyone using 'writing plans' to help. I mindmap in Excel. Key point and ideas I want to include. Helping with analysis. #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - @NSRiazat How do U mind map in Excel? #phdchat

@debbiefuco - U.S. 'falls back' this Sunday. RT @lizith: @srossmktg but it is the OLD time - clocks went back last weekend :) #phdchat

@DrNostromo - @ekvraga Agree, don't I know it #phdchat

@ai1sa - i have avery labour intensive writing style, I meander a river then structure it afterwards #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @just_aoife no problem just DM me an email #phdchat

@NSRiazat - Nash, W (1990) 'The stuff these people write' in 'The Writing Scholar'. London: Sage. #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - looking at thesis now its the most alien document #phdchat

@yukrla - hi!sorry I'm late. Would you mind repeating what is the topic today please? thanks #phdchat

@debbiefuco - *shout* RT @lizith: @sarahthesheepu I've got copy - you sent me one some time back - worth others having a look! @janedavis13 #phdchat

@Zimbarama - hi all! sorry to join late, with us going an hour forward I hope to make more of these sessions #phdchat

@ai1sa - some days my phd is like a rubiks cube (& i could never get those right ) #phdchat

@Nicky_Garland - I have to have plan for what I'm writing before i start otherwise I'm all over the place, plan becomes bullet points becomes text #phdchat

@lizith - @NSRiazat I'm outlining the whole document and each part and then editing sections according to that plan - I already have a draft #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @NSRiazat Is mindmapping helping you to structure into chapters? Or do you think the chapters sort of define themselves? #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @LBA_OX12 - draw using symbols and add ideas into textboxes. Use Excel spreadsheet as a canvas. Can also do with www.prezi.com #phdchat

@ai1sa - @Nicky_Garland i admire that approach, but i do my thinking by writing, an opposite approach, and very wordy #phdchat

@lizith - @NSRiazat first draft more like series of containers - but now getting some structure see my most recent posts http://t.co/MchrflIq #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @ClaretCarly using mind map to structure and build a logical, coherent argument. Then move around afterwards. #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @yukrla #phdchat tonight is 'developing a coherent, structured and critical argument in thesis'

@sarahthesheepu - anyone else want a copy of the thesis? #phdchat its year since it was viva'd this month lol

@NSRiazat - @lizith - it seems to come together more after a few drafts. I needed to factor more time in for drafting and re-drafting. #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @sarahthesheepu Yes please, have been meaning to look at others but didn't want to be overwhelmed early on! #phdchat

@yukrla - I find it extra difficult to develop a comprehensible argument..#phdchat@NSRiazat

@NSRiazat - @ai1sa @Nicky_Garland - also high on word count and lengthy description. Struggle with concise. Am way over word limit :) #phdchat

@SueFolley - @sarahthesheepu yes please - will DM you my email addy - thanks :)) #phdchat

@Zimbarama - @sarahthesheepu any body want to read my thesis and tell me how to fix it?? haha my supervisors have been no help #phdchat

@lizith - @NSRiazat I think I'm relatively happy with argument & structure now I have big picture, more concerned with writing style #phdchat

@debbiefuco - Concise is an issue for me. RT @NSRiazat: also high on word count & lengthy description. Struggle w/ concise. way over word limit #phdchat

@Zimbarama - @NSRiazat what is the word limit at your University? #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - @lizith Just read your post from 9/10, love the jigsaw analogy. I think I have some corners and edges but no sky yet :-) #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @yukrla - it is a challenging skill but one we do start to develop the more we practise writing critically as scholars. #phdchat

@Janshs - #phdchat what would your respondents say was the argument they want you to put forward on their behalf? how can you achieve that?

@lizith - @NSRiazat I fret about not being academic enough - just an old lady telling a story :-) #phdchat

@LBA_OX12 - @sarahthesheepu Thx Have sent U DM with email addy #phdchat

@yukrla - @ai1sa@Nicky_Garland@NSRiazat My thesis is part practical so word count 50k-70kmax..do you have tricks on being concise?#phdchat

@ai1sa - @lizith just yesterday i was thinking the same thing about mine own, & then i recalled who my audience was & what they repsond to #phdchat

@ai1sa - @lizith and in writing my implications (conclusion chapter, I can write to different audiences #phdchat

@yukrla - same here...more literary than sociological...I find discipline boundaries not very useful for some researches #phdchat @lizith

@sarahthesheepu - done more to disseminate my thesis in 20 min on twitter 2nite than i have in last 12 months #phdchat

@sarahthesheepu - @lizith @NSRiazat that was my concern and apparently i was very evry wrong #phdchat sometimes u r just too involved to see

@Zimbarama - @NSRiazat ah yes!! good on you! #phdchat

@SueFolley - @NSRiazat @Zimbarama I am doing an EdD - our word count is 50K words as we have already done 30K with three assignments... #phdchat

@lizith - @ai1sa so worth thinking too about how I respond to the different things I read - some of the less 'theory dense' communicate best #phdchat

@Zimbarama - @yukrla yes I agree I dont find the boundaries more of a limiting factor which makes things harder than it already is.. #phdchat

@ai1sa - @yukrla hahahahaha i am wordy, in excess of 100K already and still wriitng conclusions #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @lizith - like that idea Liz about telling a story. I guess that is what we are doing by publishing a thesis...telling a story. #phdchat

@Zimbarama - @SueFolley oh good on you! 20K to go and voila!!! #phdchat

@Nicky_Garland - @yukrla @ai1sa @NSRiazat I find that writing as much as i need to start with and then spend a lot of time editing down #phdchat

@textdump - The way #geography is portrayed on page 638 made me chuckle http://t.co/60z5Gsx6 -- Dorling & Shaw, 2002 #phdchat

@SueFolley - @Zimbarama no we have to do 50k words on top of the 30k on assignments during the taught year :) #phdchat

@debbiefuco - Agree! RT @NSRiazat: @lizith - like that idea Liz about telling a story. I guess that is what we are doing by publishing a thesis. #phdchat

@SueFolley - @Zimbarama Having said that - I have written about 54k words so far - and still not finished - though can edit later :) #phdchat

@yukrla - @lizith @NSRiazat Does your university impose a certain structure? I find that a bit obtrusive with the telling of the story..#phdchat

@HelenHickson - love the new time, better for us in Australia. hope to join in more often #phdchat

@NSRiazat - "@GaryLoper: Without enthusiasm you are doomed to a life of mediocrity, with it you can accomplish miracles ~ Og Mandino" #phdchat

@lizith - @HelenHickson good to see you - interesting how clock changes make things easier for some and less so for others #phdchat

@HelenHickson - @NSRiazat I use table of contents in Word to plan structure, then I fill in the sections as I have time, and I can see how it fits #phdchat

@debbiefuco - 25 insights on becoming a better writer http://t.co/6TLfXCfd #phdchat

@dratarrant - #phdchat I based my structure around my research questions so each analysis chapter responded directly to those...after much waffle!!!

@lizith - @yukrla @nsriazat structure not imposed but some elements need to be there like lit review, theory, ethics, methodology, etc #phdchat

@TwtrChat411 - #PhDchat starts at 8:30pm BST moderated by @NSRiazat Participate!

@ai1sa - i choose not to innovate everything at once, so follow traditional layout, but data analysis is in a pulp fiction genre #phdchat

@NSRiazat - @HelenHickson - did a table of contents a while ago but not gone back to it in recent months - need to revisit #phdchat

@debbiefuco - @NSRiazat I've rearranged my table of contents several times. Just hoping it as the right rhythm to 'tell my story." #phdchat

@rellypops - Generating talk about planning for #AcBoWriMo writing http://t.co/at88T9FI #phdchat #academia #highered #Writing @teachingtomtom

@HelenHickson - Excellent ideas. i will try these. RT @debbiefuco: 25 insights on becoming a better writer http://t.co/ADe9oPYy #phdchat

@ai1sa - @HelenHickson i might give the first step-hanging- a miss #phdchat

@debbiefuco - @HelenHickson They will be good to dig out when needing motivation. #phdchat

@NSRiazat - 8.30pm GMT brings us to the end of #phdchat - thank you to all colleagues who joined in/observed tonight.

@yukrla - Thank you for a fantastic session, very inspiring! See you next week :) #phdchat @NSRiazat

@lizith - @NSRiazat and thanks for bringing us together again and enabling us to share issues, ideas and insights #phdchat

@debbiefuco - If your in education, you might want to follow #authorspeak conference runs Nov 1-3. Lots of good stuff. #phdchat

@debbiefuco - Hear, hear! RT @lizith: @NSRiazat and thanks for bringing us together again and enabling us to share issues, ideas and insights #phdchat

@ai1sa - love this "have the courage to write badly" #phdchat http://t.co/IOoquPA5

@NSRiazat - "@EA_Holmes: @NSRiazat Hi Nasima - is it 7.30-8.30pm? I want to get others from Chi Uni interested!" (Weds 7.30pm-8.30pm GMT) #phdchat

@ClaretCarly - Thanks all for a great #phdchat tonight. Now, nearly time for #frozenplanet - yay!

@rou09 - amen..@itsRamel: Dear iTunes, I sure could use a dissertation app right now with ready made template, ideas, and petite brownies #phdchat

@ai1sa - i love that #phdchat is early morning for me, it starts my day smiling at my phd

@allonsdanser - @sarahthesheepu I would like that very much. (had to leave #phdchat to help students in computer lab). Thank you!

@MrsSPannell - Tomorrow, I take my thesis to be bound. #Yay #phdchat #anunnecessarilyexpensiveprocess

@ai1sa - @MrsSPannell WOW! congrats!!! my uni has given notice that as of 2012 it will have moved to pdf for thesis submission. #phdchat

@profkrg - @srossmktg Did you use it? Whoever made this is not working with my adviser ;) #phdchat

@srossmktg - @profkrg Lol, I haven't used it, I'm on my advisor's timeline. Which more or less seems to work. He gets everyone out in 4. #phdchat

@EvilSue - oh the timing of this link! Thx :P RT @ai1sa: love this "have the courage to write badly" #phdchat http://t.co/7D296JaD

@allonsdanser - Wonderful advice for those joining #AcBoWriMo writing challenge. #phdchat http://t.co/MU0UQEfB via @rellypops

@rellypops - Thankyou RT @allonsdanser: Wonderful advice for those joining #AcBoWriMo writing challenge. #phdchat http://t.co/XR6hokpq via @rellypops

@aeratcliffe - Congrats! RT @MrsSPannell: Tomorrow, I take my thesis to be bound. #Yay #phdchat #anunnecessarilyexpensiveprocess

@jvitak - Got over 2K words written on my diss proposal today. I can't say they're _good_ words, but words on paper > no words on paper. #phdchat

@lindathestar - At #PhD seminar day. Person centred care for Holocaust survivors is fascinating topic, relevant to other trauma survivors. #phdchat

@ScottTimcke - An investigation in #EssayMills by @Opendna http://t.co/cN1OevjW #PhDChat,

@lindathestar - Holocaust survivors r unique cohort in history of genocide, first individuals to survive genocide & live to old age #phdchat

@ScottTimcke - Outsourcing #academic honesty, the untapped market opportunity for #essaymills http://t.co/cN1OevjW #PhDChat (via @Opendna)

@lindathestar - Difference b/w migrant, and migrant survivor of trauma, adding dementia to mix means workers need special skills & understanding #phdchat

@snowandscience - late grading midterms / waiting for evening hockey / hat trick rocks for jocks #phdchat #phdhaiku

@lindathestar - Heartening to hear others present on baby boomer research. Sometimes I feel isolated in my ageing research. Seminar's on ageing #phdchat

@JeffreyKeefer - @klbz @NonverbalPhD @daciatakesnote @PeterFlomStat @savasavasava Great; that makes 3 of us. How about the rest of you. 6:00? #phdchat